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News & Projects Utility Attempts to Patent Advanced Metering Sep 11, 2008
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| Fine Print? |
| It sounds like a wise move on hearing the details presented, but what of the details not presented? It´s hard to form an opinion about this without knowing if and/or what the caveats are. |
| Patrick Dugan - 09/11/2008 - 17:59 |
| Open Source - Key to SmartGrid Development |
| SCE invites all to review the draft non-exclusive worldwide royalty free license on our website at http://www.sce.com/usecases. This draft incorporates feedback that we have received since the EPRI presentation earlier this week. We are interested in comments which can be sent to us at edisonsmartconnectbiz@sce.com. We also look forward to discussing this at the web conference on Sept. 19th. One point of clarification on the article is that EPRI, UtilityAMI and IEEE are leading the development of the SmartGrid Open Source Repository - SCE is only one of several supporters. Had this type of repository been available in early 2005, when we started our AMI efforts and developed several ideas to create new uses that yielded a positive business case for our customers, we would not have needed to pursue patent protection. Will an IEEE Open Source Repository facilitate open innovation in the industry to develop SmartGrid? We think it could be valuable - what do you all think? Thanks Paul De Martini VP, Advanced Technologies Southern California Edison |
| Paul De Martini - 09/11/2008 - 19:23 |
| Why not publish? |
| To me it is totally unclear why SCE is taking this route. For a patent to be accepted it needs to be new; which also implicitly includes the condition that it should not have been widely published. In other words, SCE could also have taken the route of publication of what they now claim. This would service the same goal that they now say they do. And above that they would not have introduced legal complexity to the subject. If SCE succeeds in getting the patent accepted it woud be an amazing achievement since the amount of publications on the matter worldwide. Anyone would can shed some light on the choice described above, please do so... |
| Marcel van Hest - 09/11/2008 - 23:41 |
| The customer ultimately has the last word. |
| While I see SCE's move as bold and potentially good for them, for which I applaud their thinking, it remains to be seen how this move benefits customers. Smart Grid, AMI, DRI and old fashioned AMR are expensive propositions and care needs to be taken not to scare off customers who will in turn scare off Public Service Commissions from approving full cost recovery. There is a lot of hype surrounding these initiatives. If customers cannot benefit, then there may be no benefit and the "smart grid" and “advanced metering” bubbles will burst. Hopefully SCE considered that their move could have cascading ramifications such as leading to expensive lawsuits down the line. In addition, many utilities will now also want to jump on the bandwagon and will take this as a challenge to seek a special angle to "smart grid" and “advanced metering” that they too can patent thereby taking their eye off the ball and causing a major distraction. The favorable Texas PSC ruling on advanced metering has potential to become precedent setting, something we do not want to adversely affect. However, if customers and PSC's in other states see moves like this with underlying profit motive and/or presenting obstacles to free market enterprise and/or creating unnecessary red tape, then utilities in other states will not get the necessary level of cost recovery, thereby skewing the return on investment calculations and benefits to customers and killing "smart grid" and “advanced metering” projects. As long as SCE has considered the potential for a negative customer impact and is willing to back away, there may be no issue. |
| Jude Del Percio - 09/12/2008 - 04:14 |
| Access to patent application |
| Has anyone been able to retrieve the patent application from the USPTO using 11/62680? That did not work neither did using De Martini as an Inventor. A study of what SCE is claiming is needed here. |
| Dan Flohr - 09/12/2008 - 04:43 |
| SCE Patent Application Number 20080177678 |
| The actual patent application serial number is 20080177678 not 11/62680 as indicated above and in SCEs draft license agreement. You can get it through this link: Click Here |
| Dan Flohr - 09/12/2008 - 04:54 |
| Patent for advanced metering |
| I think SCE is a bit late trying to patent smart metering. In 1973 I tried to patent a on-peak, off-peak metering system that used microwave technology or a signal transmitted on the transmission lines themselves to switch the meter into various recording modes. The patent office informed me of a patent that was issued in the 1800's for the same technology that used the transmission lines for the carrier. They didn't propose microwave communications, but it doesn't matter because the smart metering patent has around for almost 200 years. |
| Jack Duckworth - 09/12/2008 - 06:45 |
| Serial No. vs. Pub. App No. |
| No, the USPTO Serial Number is 11/626,810. The Published Application Number is US 2008/0177678-A1. |
| Bob Starr - 09/12/2008 - 08:45 |
| USPTO Searches |
| Any of the following advanced USPTO advanced searches will work from the Published Application search page: in/"di martini" apn/626810 dn/20080177678 |
| Bob Starr - 09/12/2008 - 09:25 |
| Web Conference? |
| Anyone know if SCE has announced the link to their Web Conference? |
| Norman Neil - 09/15/2008 - 12:38 |
| Webinar on SCE AMI Patent Application |
| The UtilityAMI Webinar on 'SCE AMI Patent Application and Use Case License' is scheduled for: 8AM PT /11 AM EDT, for a presentation from Paul De Martini on SCE's patent application and SCE's proposed world-wide, royalty free license agreement to the use cases and related materials. Please register for the webinar at https://www2.gotomeeting.com/register/801981140 |
| Justina Garcia - 09/15/2008 - 18:48 |
| E Source Hosted Call RE SCE's Patent on Friday 9/19 |
| Join the E Source hosted conference call on Friday, 9/19: "Why Did Southern California Edison File a Patent for its AMI Use Case?" Speaker: Paul De Martini, vice president in charge of Southern California Edison's (SCE's) Advanced Technologies Group Southern California Edison has been on the leading edge in the design of their Smart Grid and has taken another bold move by filing a business methods patent. The application specifies "a method for communicating between the utility and the customer." In a recent interview, a representative from SCE said the utility decided to file a business methods patent as a defensive measure. So what is this all about? What does it mean to your company? Are there global implications? Find out the answers to these questions and more during this special E Source-hosted conference call with Paul De Martini, who will discuss SCE's intent. When: September 19, 2008 Noon PT; 1:00 p.m. MT; 3:00 p.m. ET (duration: 1 hour) This conference call is open to E Source members and invited guests. To participate in this conference call, please dial 800-341-3130 and use confirmation code 9525141. Justina Garcia Edison SmartConnect Communications Southern California Edison |
| Justina Garcia - 09/16/2008 - 16:34 |
| AMI |
| As is there are very low ratings for cost to benefit...between 1 to 0.5 for AMI infrastructure. From customers' point of view the lack of benefit is prime and ought to be given prime concern...however, the utilities' quest for earning a "rate of return' knows no bounds. Utilities such as SCE first MUST show reasonable cost/benefit in the favor of customers before any of this AMI business can go any further...these so called regulatroy utilities lobby hard to the state regulatory commissions for these massive investment that apparently has little value for the customers...regulation has become such a political football that customers' well being is not found on the sidelines..they are merely reduced to the role of spectators. |
| Bobby Khan - 09/18/2008 - 09:52 |
| AMI - SCE |
| As I recall from reading the House Bill that was approved by Washington earlier this year. It directs the Secretary of Energy to establish "Standards" for equipment etc. for use in the "Smart Grid". While Standards in and of themselves canot be patented or copyrighted, there is no reason that a patent or copyright could not be used as a Standard. |
| Richard W - 09/24/2008 - 12:56 |
| Carbon copy? |
| I don't know if this log is still active but appliers must search patents before applying for a patent. Have they looked at Canadian Patent: 2364081 does it look familiar? I'm sure some of applicants knew that from summer 2007 DR town meeting. |
| Reza Baraty - 03/01/2009 - 14:07 |
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